To kick off a conversation about third parties, it’s crucial to get a sense of what voters on the ground are thinking. A swing state like Georgia makes for a particularly compelling case study. Georgia was crucial in President Biden’s victory and in securing the Democratic majority in the Senate — thanks in large part to efforts by voting engagement groups like the New Georgia Project. Moving into 2024, A’Shanti talks to Ranada Robinson, the Research Director at the New Georgia Project, to get a sense of what she’s hearing from “overlooked” voters in the state.
To kick off a conversation about third parties, it’s crucial to get a sense of what voters on the ground are thinking. A swing state like Georgia makes for a particularly compelling case study. Georgia was crucial in President Biden’s victory and in securing the Democratic majority in the Senate — thanks in large part to efforts by voting engagement groups like the New Georgia Project.
Moving into 2024, A’Shanti talks to Ranada Robinson, the Research Director at the New Georgia Project, to get a sense of what she’s hearing from “overlooked” voters in the state.
Thank you to our partners at Third Way for making this mini season of The Brown Girls Guide to Politics possible. Third Way is a center-left think tank and the driving force for high-impact ideas and advocacy campaigns that can unite the vast American middle to build political power and deliver solutions. Learn more about our research on third parties in 2024 at www.thirdway.org/thirdparty.
The Brown Girls Guide to Politics Podcast is all about amplifying the voices of women who are too often forgotten in media coverage. Host A’shanti Gholar leads conversations with women changing the face of politics. In the BGG to Politics blog, A’shanti created a space for women of color to learn about the current state of politics, to support others breaking into the political sphere, and to celebrate incredible women changing the course of the country. A’shanti founded the blog in 2018 and Wonder Media Network is thrilled to extend her platform to audio.
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A’SHANTI
Welcome back Brown Girls and friends! A’shanti here. I’m your host for the Brown Girls Guide to Politics.
I heard you all loud and clear - this season, we’re going to talk once again about the thing on everyone’s mind – the presidential election. It’s going to be another one for the history books.
And while there’s seemingly been game-changing breaking news on the candidates every day…I want to focus on a more consistent factor that has the potential to sway the outcome of this election. Third parties.
Moving into the 2024 presidential election, voters across the board are expressing dissatisfaction with the two major parties and an openness to third-party candidates. While a third-party candidate has never won, they have impacted the outcome of presidential elections for decades.
Over the next three episodes we’ll hear what voters are thinking from a voter engagement advocate working on the ground. Then we’ll get into the history of our two-party system, and how third parties have impacted previous elections. Finally, we’ll talk about the projected impact of third parties on this election – and how the two major parties are responding.
Today…I’m thrilled to bring in Ranada Robinson from the New Georgia Project. The New Georgia Project was founded by Stacey Abrams, our very first guest on the show. And they played a major role in the 2020 election, as Georgia was crucial in President Biden’s victory and in securing the Democratic majority in the Senate. Their strategy is focused on engaging “overlooked” voters. And understanding this population – is crucial if we’re going to talk about third parties, and this upcoming election.
Brought to you in partnership with Third Way, a center-left think tank, and the driving force for high impact ideas and advocacy campaigns that can unite the vast American middle to build political power and deliver solutions.
Let's get into it.
A’SHANTI
Ranada, thank you so much for joining us. How are you today?
RANADA
Great. Thanks for having me.
A’SHANTI
So first, just tell us a little bit about yourself, and particularly how did you get involved in the policy side of work? I always find that very intriguing, especially for our listeners, how people land up in their part of the political ecosystem.
RANADA
Before joining NGP, I was an economic development consultant…Which I completely enjoyed because I love creating solutions for communities. However, what I was having to do was take my research and figure out how to not say Black people need this thing. I decided that I really wanted to be in a space where I could talk about what the research was actually saying without figuring out how to say it in ways that made people more comfortable. And so I really started trying to figure out like, how can I do Black research specifically. So I ended up in New Georgia Project in October, 2020. So I jumped on a bullet train, and I guess the ride has been exciting enough…LAUGHS.
A’SHANTI
LAUGHS.
RANADA
But I love it Because I'm actually able to say, here's what Black people want, need, are concerned about, are dreaming of.
A’SHANTI
I love that so much. And yes, I'm sure you never, ever have a dull day at work. While I am very familiar with the New Georgia Project, can you tell the listeners a little bit about the organization?
RANADA
It started as a way to really educate people about the Affordable Care Act and get them signed up. We have morphed into one of the largest organizations with a ground game in the state of Georgia. We focus on historically marginalized communities. Um, So we focus on the voters that others do not invest in because they don't believe that their return on investment is high enough. So most people call them low propensity voters. We call them high opportunity voters because words matter.
A’SHANTI
I love that. I remember the first time I heard y'all say that. Phrases matter, words matter, and what you call people matter.
RANADA
Yes! Yes. They feel it. And the-the people who are having to talk to them feel it. Since we changed our terminology, even our canvassers say, you know, before you were knock on the door, it's like, oh my gosh, I'm about to get the, the door slammed in my face. But once we like really talked about like, this is how this feeds into our theory of change, which is that if we expand the electorate, we can change the outcome of elections and civic engagement beyond voting. Once we change that verbiage, now it is when I knock on the door, I have the opportunity to really make a difference because this person could be that margin, right ?
A’SHANTI
Mm-Hmm.
RANADA
We work all over the state. We have multiple offices. We hire people in those offices that are from the communities in which those offices exist, so that when folks are talking to you at your door, you're talking to somebody who is from where you are and who understands the issues that they're talking to you about. So yeah, our work is super important because Black voters really do matter. We are the backbone to the progressive movement, in my opinion.
A’SHANTI
And the work that you have done, you talked about it to expand the electorate, it has had an impact. So can you tell us in particular how the work that you all started led up to Georgia being the king-making state in 2020 in so many ways. And then even in the midterms after that, we know that so much of that really started with early investments, that new Georgia Project made in the state of Georgia. And we're actually seeing other states, Southern states in particular, try to mimic that because we know that once you do the investment, it happens.
RANADA
Yeah. So before I get into our story, I really do want to emphasize what you just said. It is early, it is consistent. It is sustainable investment that makes the difference. 2020 was not a fluke. We had been doing the work, we had been in communities, we had been engaging voters over time. So what we did in 2020 wasn't because of work that we did in 2020. It was the work that we had done leading up to 2020 that came to fruition. One of the things that really makes our work special is that we don't have one, one single message frame that we say to every single Black voter because we know that Black voters are not a monolith. And so we do very rich and intentional research to understand what folks want. Leading up to the runoffs, I kept seeing in all these polls that young Black Georgians in rural areas were just not having it. They weren't turning out, um, they weren't planning to. And so we conducted some focus groups to figure out like, what is going on? And so what they said to us was, these candidates sound great. Warnock and Ossoff sound great, but I won't trust them until they actually are in the role doing the job. So I asked them about the issues that they cared about. They cared about those stimulus checks. They cared about what was going on with racial justice in this country at that time. So they were worried about incidents like the George Floyd murder. And so what we did was we leaned into those issues and it has worked time and again since then. Focusing on candidates alone is not it. We have to, have to, have to connect the dots between the election and the issues that actually impact people's daily lives. It is not about the transactional election. It is about how are we building power over time to create a future that we want.
A’SHANTI
I love that. And you said it, everyone we've heard on this podcast before, we know voters are not a monolith. And especially that part about not making it always about the candidate. I mean, our listeners know my job. It's all about candidates. That's what I do, recruiting and training them every day. But when I'm just out there talking to people, I say, I don't talk about a candidate. I don't talk about, you know, who is co-sponsoring what this particular policy X, Y, Z. I say, what do you care about? Where do you want to see yourself in the next five years? And what are the things that need to happen for you to get there? And that tells you everything you really need to know about what is on people's minds and what they're caring about.
RANADA
That's right. People know their communities. They know what's going on. They know what impacts them. They know what they would like to see. And so we are curious enough to listen to them and to try to meet their needs. They will absolutely participate in the process.
A’SHANTI
This crazy little election cycle that we have going on here. So much has changed since we saw the presidential race have a major shift. Tell us about, first of all, where were you when you found out?
RANADA
I was at home…preparing to go on vacation. LAUGHS. So my first thought was similar to the thoughts of a lot of, of Black voters, particularly Black women. And it was really mixed feelings. Right. Um, the polls leading up to that moment showed that Black voters were the least likely to want President Biden to step down. And Black voters were the least likely to be dissatisfied with his job performance. Just him stepping down created more skepticism about how important our voices are. But on the other hand, we have the opportunity for another historic moment. We have the opportunity for the first woman, the first Black woman, the first South Asian woman, the first daughter of immigrants, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, president of these United States, which then also creates more skepticism that our non-Black counterparts will turn out for her. And I will say we've talked to people in the field since that moment and we, you know, of course we hear the mixed feelings, but we also hear excitement. And we are in such a critical moment right now that it's, it is sometimes hard to grasp the hope, but what I would tell you is I was a part of that 44,000 Black women call…
A’SHANTI
Me too.
RANADA
And it gave me the boost of hope that I needed.
A’SHANTI
I was also on that call, the Win with Black women call. 44,000 women. I absolutely love the energy, but I was also like, I gotta get to bed. It has been a long day. And then we saw that call followed by Win with Black men and them having over 40,000 Black men on the call. And this week our Latina sisters have gathered. Our AA and HPI sisters have gathered. There's going to be a white women's call. The energy is definitely there. And that white women's call in particular goes to what you were talking about and what all of us has felt – will non-Black and brown people show up for her the way that we are going to show up for her? And we are seeing that, and I think it's scaring some of these other candidates. Some of them have gone real quiet, particularly the third party candidates. And I know it's only been a few days, but wondering what shift you all are seeing over at New Georgia Project?
RANADA
So, you know, the shift has not been significant simply because third party candidates were not that popular in the first place. In September, 2023, we conducted a poll, um, and our third party candidates did not even reach 10% of our horse race polling. While this election cycle doesn't feel as urgent as it did in 2020, because we were in it…People understand the importance of this moment. And so, yes. You know, third party candidates provide us a way to protest it. It provides us a way to say, I don't like either of the candidates, but I think a lot of people who are participating understand what is on the line. What I have been most concerned about is a percentage of people who are not showing up at all. Those are the folks that I'm trying to make sure understand what is at stake and how powerful their vote is. We are voting for more than just the top person. And I think people are starting to understand that. So I expect for Black voters that the percentage of folks planning to vote third party will go down. But as we were talking about our non-Black counterparts for whom I don't do research, but my expectation is that there's might go up, but we'll see.
A’SHANTI
So many questions I wanna ask right now. You know, it is just, it's fascinating to be living in this moment. Can you just tell me a little bit more to about what you're hearing about Vice President Harris, who she's secured enough delegates to become the official nominee. And just how you think that will play out in Georgia? Do you think a lot of the issues that we're making people want to vote third party, will those still exist?
RANADA
So let's start with the negatives. VP Harris has been mired down in mis- and disinformation since 2019 when she came on the scene.
A’SHANTI
Ooh. Yep.
RANADA
Even now. So we had the old mis and disinformation, now we have some new mis and disinformation because there was this conservative, this info narrative that says, where is Kamala? Well,
A’SHANTI
Everywhere. LAUGHS.
RANADA
Like.
A’SHANTI
Yes.
RANADA
I would love for people to tell me what was Al Gore doing? They don't know. I would love for people to even tell me who the VP was. In certain administrations, they probably won't know. But also, it's so interesting to me how dis info narratives work because it really like convinces people to not pay attention to what they're actually seeing and hearing. And so a part of our jobs in this time. We really have to make sure that people understand her record as a DA, as the attorney general, as a US senator.
A’SHANTI
That misinformation and disinformation. Very important for our listeners and our communities. We gotta make sure we're reading the full article. We gotta do our own fact checking and debunking. You know, I'm gonna be honest, particularly, I need for people not to believe all of the negative stuff that is being said about Vice President Harris's record as DA.
RANADA
To that point, I really want, uh, the progressive movement to reconsider how we talk about various positions. I've heard people say, you know, there's no such thing as a progressive DA. And I challenge that because there's an underlying assumption that das are prosecuting Black people. That is not the case. DAs are prosecuting people who have done something to someone else. And so when Black people are the victim, we need DAs to care enough to prosecute those folks on our behalf. And so, yes, there are issues. Yes, there are things that we should demand as progressive folks related to how that system is, but we cannot say that a DA is inherently not progressive. When we need a DA to prosecute the police officers who are, um, victimizing us. We need people from our communities who will care that these things are happening. Right.
A’SHANTI
Absolutely. And we are about to be a little bit under a hundred days here from the election. By the time our listeners hear this, do you think that there's any big prevalent issue that none of the parties have addressed that voters are really caring about?
RANADA
I'll start by saying, according to our polling and from what we hear at doors, the top issues for Black Georgians are, like I said before, cost of living in inflation, but also jobs and wages, um, access to healthcare and community safety. And so part of the answer to your question is we have to draw the comparison. We have to, we have to create a place where people see that there is a clear choice that they have to make in November. So when it comes to the issues that they care about, whether the parties are talking about those issues specifically or are constantly or not, there are records for those issues. One side is trying to codify our right to make decisions about our own bodies. One side is trying to make sure that people have access to affordable healthcare. One side is concerned about high levels of maternal mortality, particularly for Black women. One side has already expanded Medicaid. The other side is blocking that funding coming to communities. So Georgia still 13, 14 years later has not expanded Medicaid. And we have hospitals closing all over the state, including in metro Atlanta. So this is not just a rural issue. Regardless of what these folks are talking about on the stump, what world do I want to live in? Like, where do I want to be? Where do I want my children to be? Because that is the issue.
A’SHANTI
Yes.
RANADA
So listen up to any politicos out there, we have to make sure that we are making the voter the hero in the story. I want people to stop saying that enthusiasm is the same as turnout. It is not when it comes to Black people. Black people do not vote because they are enthusiastic. Black people vote because we have to, we know that the lives of our families are on the line. And so we don't have to be joyful about who the candidates are to show up for our families. We, at New Georgia project measure power perception, which actually is a good proxy for likelihood of turnout. The more powerful people feel that their vote is to change the issues that matter to them, the more likely they are to actually show up. And so one of the things that we are focused on is making sure that people feel as powerful as possible power, not enthusiasm, but also we have to have to have to stop only talking to voters in the months leading up to a major election. We have to talk to voters year round. We have to connect the dots for them. We have to make sure that we understand what they care about, um, and what is happening related to those issues. We have to educate people on what these different positions do. We have to make sure that we are actually building real genuine relationships with voters, not transactional ones. That is why Black voters say folks are pandering to them because they only hear from them when it's time to ask them to vote.
A’SHANTI
Ranada, that was just so amazing. Thank you for your time. As we continue on in this election cycle…tell us how we can keep up to date with you and New Georgia Project as things continue to shift and change.
RANADA
To get in touch with us, uh, we are@newgeorgiaproject.org and NGPAF.org. I actually have a research tab on both of those websites, so new Georgia project.org/research. But most of all, what we need from folks right now is of course your financial support always, but also volunteers. What is most impactful for our work is when everyday people talk to other everyday people. And so, you know, if listeners have a, have time for phone banking, even door knocking, they can go to our website, to our volunteer form and sign up. Because the more the merrier, we love being in community and so we invite other community members to join us.
A’SHANTI
Thank you so much, Ranada, for joining us today for the amazing work that you do. I know, I look forward to following and see how the research changes as we head into the final months of this presidential election cycle. But like you said, it's not just about the top of the ticket. We gotta be voting this whole ballot and. I'll do my reminder. There's 520,000 elected offices in this country. President and vice president. There are just two of 'em. The majority of those offices are at the state and local level. And those are the people who get to shape our lives with the stroke of a pen every day.
RANADA
That's right.
A’SHANTI
Enjoy the rest of your well deserved vacation
RANADA
LAUGHS. I'll try, A’shanti.
A’SHANTI
That was Ranada Robinson, the research director for the New Georgia Project, laying out the mis- and dis-information that is contributing to folks looking third party or looking at staying home. And - the arguments we can be making to refute these issues and return to making the VOTER the hero of the story. Join us next time as take a look at how we ended up with a two-party system in the U.S.
Brought to you in partnership with Third Way, a Center Left Think Tank, and the driving force for high impact ideas and advocacy campaigns that can unite the vast American middle to build political power and deliver solutions.
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